Vince:

Okay we’re here, Good afternoon everybody we’re at Unsung Internet Radio, and I have on the line right now, live in living color Mr. Lamont Johnson, a legend of the Detroit bass world. If you know anything about bass players, you would know this name. And so I just want to say, hi, how are you doing, Mr. Lamont?

Lamont:
I’m doing just fine, man, good to be here, man.

Vince:
Yeah! You know we’re honored to have you here and share your experiences, my first question to you, Lamont, is who is Lamont Johnson in your own words?

Lamont:
Who is Lamont Johnson… I don’t think this show is that long, man. It all depends on what area of Lamont Johnson that you want to know about. Be more specific because there’s quite a few… I think there’s quite a few dimensions of Lamont Johnson.

Vince:
Okay, well I figured that was kind of a broad question but… in the bass world…

Lamont:
Well that’s an easy one, yeah, that’s an easy one to understand.

Vince:
Well most people that is a musician, they know you as a bassist extraordinaire, you pretty much shaped a way a lot of musicians… bassist play from the ‘70’s, so I wanted you to tell me a little bit how did you get started in playing bass and music? What inspired you?

Lamont:
Willie Weeks…

Vince:
Willie Weeks…

Lamont:
Willie Weeks, he was playing on the Donny Hathaway album, featured on a tune called Everything Is Everything, another song that was on that album was Little Ghetto Boy, I dreamed of Willie Weeks recording, Donny featured him on his Everything Is Everything recording… Donny featured Willie in a solo, and that was quite revolutionizing, or revolutionary or whatever because everybody was playing that solo but it really inspired me, it made me want to play bass, at the time I was attempting to play guitar

Hugh:
How old were you?

Lamont:
around 13…and that’s a funny story in itself, all E’s, that’s the way I used to tune my guitar! I used to play Wes Montgomery melodies, it was easier to play octaves. It made money, man! But as far as the bass is concerned, when I heard Willie Weeks, the way he constructed his instrument, his solo, and get the groove going, it was nothing really complex, but it was thrilling, and it was making melodies and everything and it just seemed like something that was for me because I felt like I could take it to another level, I had appreciated and done the same thing myself prior to that it was probably a good influence with my interest in guitar. My father, he used to play blues and country and blow harmonica, and back in those days, they had those big space heaters... I used to sit in front of that space heater and listen to him play all the time <?>! But I was really amazed the first time he picked it up, when I got my first guitar at christmas, I took it up to show it to him man, and he put it in his hands, man, and started playin it , which was amazing to me, because I never knew my grandfather could play! And that's where the funk inspiration really started. But in bass, it was Willie Weeks.

Vince:
One of the things I noticed about your playing, when I was listening to you, my brother turned me on to you, Ron Rico Morris, I remember listening to you and you had this really melodic style, and it was just… it sounded like a fretless, so was that a fretless that was on the bass then?

Lamont:
It was, yes it was, umm... boy, the fretless got my attention the day I saw Ralphe Armstrong’s fretless. I was playing in a bar, I was alone, don’t tell anybody, 16… anyway he came in with his fretless and I ain’t never seen one before, started playing with it, I liked being able to play music expressively, I liked playing the saxophone and singing melodies… probably when you seen me play, come a little ways into something I call phonics on the bass and playing in the cracks of the notes with a fretless, just makin' it sing, man, and then I always wanted to be different from everybody else, so, I stuck with the fretless -- nobody else was playing it other than Ralphe, and he was playing jazz…

Vince:
Interesting, because you know in our music we don’t hear a lot of fretless, that’s interesting. So who are some of your students pass that are now renowned musicians so that people can get a gravity of you…. So you inspired a lot of musicians, contemporary bass players of today, who are some of your students who are now working, celebrity musicians that you can just name?

Lamont:
Boy, celebrity musicians… I take such pride in these. I’m going to start out with Jervonny Collier, who is presently working with The Fifth Dimension, Pointer Sisters, and Bruce Hornsby, just recently seen him in Ontario, had a chance to get some… get a little reunion going on, as a matter of fact we did an interview on him, I did a little interview on him, that can be seen on YouTube or on my Facebook page. Jervonny Collier, who has played with Luther [Vandross], I mean he has played with tons of people and as of this day he inspires me, little does he know, but as of this day he accredits everything he knows, I really do appreciate that. Another individual would be Kern Brantley, who is now music director and bassist for Lady Gaga, the biggest sensation out there, and I had the pleasure of interviewing him. Trying to put together a project myself… Byron Miller as of this day, he’s a little… I’ll call it shy or withdrawn the idea of it admitting or acknowledging but I went to California and recorded Soul Train with Brainstorm, and we were staying in a Holiday Inn hotel and he came and visited us, Byron did, and he must have spent about an hour in my hotel room, in my room and we were jamming, basically, well actually I was jamming, I was so proud of being with Brainstorm and the things that I was doing and I wanted to show off, you know how we usually do when we’re young… and man I must have sat for about an hour and played everything I could think of… solo work, groove, you name it. But I allowed him to record, he asked me if he could record… and so that was… I would love to hear that recording today but my point is… my ultimate point is about a month or so later, “Dukie Stick” comes out, and I’m listening to all of my lines on the song, now, I had no idea this guy was going to do this… you know, it’s wonderful, I never was bitter about it, but as of this day he won’t acknowledge it.

Hugh:
Just for the listeners I can chime in here that the song that Lamont is talking about is a George Duke hit that came out in 1978 and it has a huge bass solo by Byron Miller which is what Lamont is talking about. [Actually it is called "Reach For It" -- see video -hjh]

Lamont:
And then there was Breech Ford, I can’t remember which one came out first, but Capital Records, our Brainstorm’s company was pretty slow in dropping their products and so unfortunately, if I’m not mistaken, Dukie Stick, Brian… not Brian, I keep calling him Brian… Byron had a chance to release his first and so in many ways I believe a lot of people might think that I’m emulating Byron…

Vince:
So you’re saying that George Duke’s album came out before Stormin’?

Lamont:
You know what I’m going to back up on that, George Duke’s didn’t come out before Stormin’, but we were promoting Stormin’ at the Soul Train show, but we all know George Duke became a whole lot more popular than Brainstorm…

Vince:
Well that song is what did it, yeah

Lamont:
Many people thought he was George Duke… but I spoke with Byron about a month ago, and actually I didn’t speak with him, we exchanged Facebook messages and let’s keep this raw, he said to me, he said, oh you’re saying that I took lessons from you. I went back to him and said no, I didn’t say you took lessons from me, I said you were inspired by me. Now there are 3 levels of lessons to me or what is it… comrades, there’s the one that took lessons, studied with me, there’s the one that was influenced by me, and then there was the one that was inspired, now inspired is the least involved to me, and no one plays those licks… even if, for those who don’t even know about the story I just told, no one plays licks like that after me without saying that I inspired them, okay? He’s from Detroit too, we knew each other, so it’s even a closer bond.

Hugh:
Yeah if I could chime in, I think it’s this thing on the bass, it’s kind of like a blues guitar playing on steroids through the bass.

Lamont:
Yeah, well I wouldn’t give them steroids…

Hugh:
Well I’m talking about you

Lamont:
Oh, me? Oh well, you know, I don’t even know if I’d go with steroids on me but I will admit that I’m a blues bassist. Most bass players out there usually stretch and reach for the jazz approach of playing. Jazz, I mean, the traditional jazz has never really moved me like it has with bassists like Ralphe Armstrong and I like the things that Ron Carter did, but the reason why is because he is extremely melodic, and he didn’t just strive to be <?> or the quickest guitar player

Hugh:
Who are you talking about now?

Lamont:
I was talking about Ron Carter at the time, but when I mentioned the quickest guitar players, I’m talking about bass players like Patitucci and I mean those guys, they sound like frustrated guitar players, so they couldn’t make it into the guitar world, so they picked up a bass and played the same Riffs and it makes them a commodity.

Hugh:
Yeah but you were doing it long before

Lamont:
Well I was playing blues and I was playing grooves and when you’re playing scales within your solo continuously, you’re not going to move anybody, you’re not melodic. I mean, you're dazzlin' them...

Hugh:
Right, and if you’re doing that on bass it just sounds like a walking bass line

Lamont:
Really, and if you got speed that’s wonderful, I love Stanley, Stanley opened my eyes to a lot of things, but it’s all about style, you know, so I appreciate people for their style more so than their ability.

Vince:
I really liken your style to a lot of what when I remember listening to Jaco Pastorius when he played it sounded like…. It would be very melodic and it would be very like it was singing, like the bass was singing, and melody is everything to me, melody is everything and I heard a lot of that when I heard you play, so this is great.

Lamont:
Oh I was just going to say Jaco is the man, I’m not one to worship anybody or heroes or all that, but if I had to pick a bass player of all time with my world, Jaco, he just had more, he had the package that inspired me most, the guy today I have to give it to Marcus, Marcus is the real deal, he manages to play everybody else’s style and still sound like himself

Hugh:
Yeah Lamont is talking about Marcus Miller for the listeners…

Lamont:
Yes, yes, Marcus Miller. It’s amazing, cause I think it’s something that I’ve always strived for to be, well not to play everybody else’s stuff, but to be able to be heard, recognized, without being seen. It’s something that I ask my siblings all the time, someone heard you, that they know who you are. And another thing too is about the various styles, back in the day when I was starting out, I was influenced by a bunch of people, what I would do is I would grab the ingredients that I think that I would like to contribute to my style, I wouldn’t learn their famous notes and twist em… but if I did learn them note for note, and play them in another song, you wouldn’t know where it came from. Chuck Rainey is a perfect example, I mean, everybody knows where a dominant 7 chord who plays bass and not understand a little bit of theory… he plays it so a chord is a chord in music, I’ll put it that way, so no one owns the chord but it’s how you play it and I would take his… I called them ditty’s back in the day… and I would put them in any song I could put them in, you’ll hear a lot of that in Brainstorm also, is a tip-toeing style of approach. I call it the Innovator - James Jameson’s style, another Detroit bass player, THE bass player.

Hugh:
Does that involve the “Shortenin’ Bread” motif?

Lamont:
“Shortenin’ Bread” motif?

Hugh:
Yeah I had a great bass player who influenced me, Ron Scott, who once told me that Detroit bassline, the Motown bassline is basically based on “Mama’s little baby loves shortening, shortening, Mama’s little baby loves shortening bread!”

Lamont:
You know, that’s quite interesting, you say that, that’s the way I see Larry Graham, he’s thumbing it. Yeah, I heard more of a concept of fourths… and scales…

Hugh:
Force, like f-o-r-c-e?

Lamont:
T-H

Hugh:
Oh fourths as in the interval fourth

Lamont:
Intervals, yes, James, if you listen to his lines a lot of time he’s playing the fourth. Let me put my teeth in. But back to those bass players, there was one little player I wanted to mention if I may, back in the day bass players weren’t soloists and so if you played little things that a certain bass player played on a record and it became part of your little repertoire style, you know, people will identify, “Oh that sounds a little like Chuck Rainey, that sounds a little like James Jameson,” you know, well nowadays we’re fortunate enough to be soloists and it’s sort of like a bittersweet type of a thing for up and coming bass players because a lot of them don’t know how to just grab a little bit and they sure can’t play the bass player’s song without sounding like in many cases playing the notes verbatim, or else you’re not playing the song right. And so that’s an unfortunate thing because…

Hugh:
Can you give an example of a song?

Lamont:
Oh, I could give you “School Days” [Stanley Clarke tune]… Marcus Miller, perfect example… if you play his songs you better have a nice effect on your bass, you better have high-end strings for the pop, you better pop and you better know how to do the triple thing or else it’s not going to come off, you’re going to come off like a cheap copy.

Lamont:
Yeah it’s the triplets on the thumb, but anyway I won’t get off to that I’m giving you a bass lesson now.

Hugh:
We understand.

Vince:
So it looks like we hit a lot of ground here, what I would like to do is set my invitation to come back and continue this conversation, I would love to continue with you…

Hugh:
Do you have to go?

Vince:
Yeah we need to…

Hugh:
Well Lamont I’m going to call you back,

Lamont:
Okay I’ll wait for your call.

Vince:
So thank you Lamont, for spending a little time with us and explaining your world to us, we wanted to shine a light on your influence in the bass world of music. Thank you and we’ll be talking to you soon.

Lamont:
You’re welcome. Okay.

Pt. 2

Hugh:
Hi this is Hugh Hitchcock I’m back again with Lamont Johnson and we’re going to continue with our discussion. Hopefully the recording will work. So Lamont, that was really, really interesting, sorry it was a little difficult with the recording and hopefully we got most of what you said but that was really, really interesting about Byron Miller and the other things, you play with this group called Brainstorm in Detroit and I knew about Brainstorm and I actually know most of the people in Brainstorm myself but at the time I didn’t know you guys and could you tell me... I know you’ve gone through ad infinite in the past but I think our listeners would be really interested to know the genesis of Brainstorm if you’d be interested to talk about that.

Lamont:
Well I could offer you the genesis of Brainstorm from my perspective, from the day of my involvement, the day that I heard they were looking for a bass player and were interested in me, I can actually go a little before that… prior to my joining of Brainstorm I worked with the saxophonist who was the leader of the group of Chuck Overton and a group called The Fifth Revelation, and that group consisted of the time that I was in the band three vocalists, female vocalists, rhythm section and Chuck and Larry Sims who was also a member of Brainstorm. Larry played Trumpet, he’s now with the Sounds of Blackness I believe, he’s been with them ever since their first hit. Yes, I can’t recall their hits, but they’re pretty popular in the gospel scene, or the contemporary gospel I guess. And anyway, that stint was short-lived but we did a lot of clubs around the Detroit area, mainly the east side and this was I’d say the early 70’s. We parted ways and everybody I believe Chuck and Larry continued the concept of The Fifth Revelation for a little time and I guess that’s what evolved into their idea of putting together a group called Brainstorm. They called themselves Brainstorm LTD, I guess at that time limited corporations were popular or something, I have no idea.

Hugh:
Well there was also that group called LTD that was really big

Lamont:
That would have been the reason why I would used LTD, they became very popular at the time.

Hugh:
Well it’s right around when Back In Love Again came right around there

Lamont:
Exactly, Jeffery Osborne, exactly. Well I was working in a club, I used to play the East side, I grew up in ??? (3:15) Michigan,

Hugh:
Isn’t that like a Polish neighborhood?

Lamont:
You bet, man, and that probably has a lot to do with my funk influence, that’s probably why it’s a little different.

Hugh:
It’s like a polka influence, roll out the funky barrel.

Lamont:
Polka baby, I could tell you some stories, baby,

Hugh:
We want to hear it all

Lamont:
You can’t hear those, we’ll talk privately about those. ??? is like an island city in the middle of Detroit, Island park, and the area of Detroit that I hung up in was sort of like the north end, I guess that’s what they called it, the north end area, but anyway there was this strip, it was called Chene, it wasn’t Chene Street or Avenue it was just Chene, and on that strip man, it must have had to have been 12-15 corner bars, they were blues bars, this was just across the little border of ??? and Detroit where they met, at Milwaukee and Chene or Boulevard and Chene, on the east side of Detroit, actually, I don’t know why they called it the north end. But I played this club called Droops at the time that I found out about Brainstorm, and there was the guy that came in, friend of mine he was telling me that Brainstorm was looking for a bass player and they wanted me to play.

Hugh:
How old were you?

Lamont:
Oh man, 17 I guess… let’s see, ‘77… 15 or 16.

Hugh:
Man, you were a young kind, you were younger than me

Lamont:
Yeah. We’ll talk about that too. All right but anyway I know the Brainstorm album came out and we recorded in ‘76 and it was released in ‘77 and ‘74 and ‘75 was when we were… when we were making noise around town.

Hugh:
We being who?

Lamont:
Oh, Brainstorm, I’m sorry. And I was born in ’55, I don’t have a problem with that…

Hugh:
Oh you’re older than me then

Lamont:
Yeah, yeah yeah, so I was a little older. But anyway, you guys do the math.

Hugh:
We’re about the same age though,

Lamont:
Yes we are. Brainstorm ended up hiring a guitar player, Big John, that’s what his name is, he now lives in Atlanta…

Hugh:
Big John…

Lamont:
Big John, guitarist, what we called him, his name was John Carlson, and ??? (6:29) keyboard player also, Bob Ross. Yes, he was the son of the family that owned the Ross Glue company, well off company if you recall the Ross glue when we were in kindergarten, and school, but to make a long story short he just kind of wanted to make it on his own and he played a fine keyboard, he played a lot like Dia Gado and what… Steely Dan

Hugh:
Fagen

Lamont:
Yes he played a lot like Fagen, wrote a lot of songs like Fagen, there’s a song on the Brainstorm album that sounds a lot like something that Steely Dan would have done or either you might say there were some influences

Hugh:
Which song was that, Lamont?

Lamont:
We Know a Place. And if you listen to the changes musically I might say that the melody may not be so much like Steely Dan but the changes in the chords that he chose to use he threw in some classical too.

Hugh:
It is, I know what you’re saying it’s kind of like a root key with pivotal chord changes but very staying in that key

Lamont:
So I went out and I heard them at the London Bridge and I didn’t have to audition because they all knew that I could play and we had jammed and played before together, and so I just went out and I wanted to check them out and at that time they had a bassist and the bassist was Beverly Yancy, they had a female. Did you know her?

Hugh:
I know her name

Lamont:
So when people ask me if I was the original bassist with Brainstorm I always tell them I’m the original bassist that recorded with Brainstorm. Beverly Yancy, she’s passed now, but she was a fine player, left-handed bassist, man. And I think they just couldn’t get along or something, there was confusion with the personalities, personality conflict. But anyway, nevertheless I became the bassist and continued the London Bridge history and it was a great time. What a wonderful band to be in, everybody was just on top of their game and not only that, they had the craziness that I possessed. I mean, wanting to have uniforms and outfits that were just stuff that… it was almost circus-like, well it was circus-like compare to everybody else, no one was doing that, even today if a band is really good, what would take them over the top is if they would think that they’re on the big stage, if they would project that visible presentation as if they’re on the big stage, it’d get their attention, as strange as this world has evolved, they’d still get the attention.

Hugh:
One thing that I’ve learned from having the honor of working with people such as yourself, Treenie Womack, Belia Woods, Norma Jean Bell, is this Detroit tradition of showmanship that’s just over the top. Like you said, the outfits, and more than that just the attitude on stage is like something you don’t see in other places.

Lamont:
There’s only a handful of people still doing it out there now and they’re solo individuals, there’s a group called Larry Lee and back in the day he was a bassist, excellent funk bassist, used to play for the Detroit Lions. And he used to play for the NFL and he’s got a fine band, just wanted to shout out, send a shout out about him.

Hugh:
Larry Lee, shout out.

Lamont:
Well anyway, I got with Brainstorm… organization and we were having a great time until power struggles began, I’m trying to say this in a very political way,

Hugh:
Yeah well your struggles in Brainstorm are legendary, and we don’t… I don’t, I couldn’t really sit here and tell you what it was but I know the interesting stories that Brainstorm and then Lamont comes out with an album called After the Storm Let There Be Music of the Sun and that tells the whole story right there

Lamont:
Do you know that wasn’t even my quote? That was Clarence Avon the owner of Tabu records, the actual owner… yeah he put a quote on my “album after the storm comes the music of the sun,” I thought that was hilarious but it was my title for the album, but he put it together.

Hugh:
And for the listeners out there, it’s a beautiful album, it’s an amazing album but the cover art is also some of the coolest that I’ve ever seen, this picture of Lamont standing on like a rocky shore with his bass and the wind blowing the music off the music stand and the sun rising, and it’s just amazing, I’ve never seen anything like that again.

Lamont:
It was fun filming, or if I should say, photo-ing, yes man.

Hugh:
That’s quite an honor there because a lot of bands get signed and they go through their ups and downs but not often does one person from a band get singled out and say, “Okay, you had some issues, we’re giving you your own album,”

Lamont:
Well in that group of nine, back in the day you had maybe eight or nine songs on an album or an LP, I wrote four of them including the title cut or let’s say I was involved with the writing… I wrote Stormin’ myself, Easy Things, myself, let’s see here… This Must be Heaven, I’m a Cool Rider, and my memory is not serving me very well,

Hugh:
Well the 2 that you mentioned, Easy Things and Stormin’, those songs are written on bass lines. And they’re kick-ass bass lines.

Lamont:
Well thank you

Hugh:
I still play Stormin’ all the time whenever I pick up a bass…

Lamont:
Yeah and I sung the song This Must Be Heaven and it just happened to be… it’s kind of weird how this turned out, it wasn’t like I had a lobbyist lobbying for me to pick my songs, what we did was we all put all our songs in the pot and we let Clarence Avon and the producer choose the songs without letting them know who wrote them. And they just happened to be my songs…

Hugh:
Well they were poppin’…

Lamont:
Well I thought they were, I was very pleased and happy and honored because this was the biggest thing that ever happened to me in my life, in a group like this and being signed, this is what you dream this is what you do it for, and so anyway, I was offered the solo deal but in retrospect as I’ve grown older and I understand the business a lot better now I honestly believe that there was some… it was a game, it was gamesmanship.

Hugh:
Between who?

Lamont:
Clarence Avon, he had invested a lot of money into Brainstorm, and he had also been investing a lot of money into SOS Band, ‘Baby We Can Do It’…

Hugh:
I was actually going to bring that up, I was going to mention that because those are huge, huge hits

Lamont:
Yeah they had a large string of hits. Well to make a long story short…

Hugh:
Just Be Good to Me, that’s another one, Just Be Good to Me… I’m really sorry, I apologize I want to hear everything that you have to say, but Clarence Avon was the president of Tabu Records who had signed Brainstorm and yourself and they also ran this other group called the SOS Band which was really quite a big international act.

Lamont:
Yes so he had all of that going on for himself and it was like… I feel like I was signed to be held at bay, he had to protect his interests. Now in retrospect if I hadn’t left out and hadn’t been patient I was young, and just was patient… there’s no doubt that someone would have offered me a deal, I mean I had a hit put out…

Hugh:
And Brainstorm had taken you where you wanted to go..

Lamont:
No I’m saying that if I had not signed with Clarence, oh I see what you’re saying, yes, the songs that I sung with Brainstorm would have given me, yeah yeah.

Hugh:
Just about everyone in Brainstorm was wildly talented and amazing showmen but you of course were among the top of that cream of the crop so had Brainstorm… had you stayed with Brainstorm and continued to go with them I don’t think there’s much doubt that you would have been signed to a larger deal somewhere yourself

Lamont:
Well there was an obstacle, and that was the reason for my leaving, they got involved in a religion, a religious cult is what I called it, but call it what you may, I have nothing against religion, their particular organization was an organization that they chose… they chose to make the decision to drive their lyrics by their religion’s beliefs,

Hugh:
And when you say “they”, I don’t mean to pull but it was everyone except you?

Lamont:
Well it was everyone except… well we lost a keyboard player earlier before I left, Bob Ross, and David Myles from Detroit was our original guitarist also, not original guitarist but a guitarist who eventually took John Thompson’s place.

Hugh:
Oh yeah, Dave Myles, he’s a funky guitar player

Lamont:
He played with Stevie, yes. And they played with George Duke, as a matter of fact he’s in town, oh he played last night at Chene Park here in Detroit and George Duke was in town. But at the time I left there was only… maybe… there was only one individual who was not involved in the religion, and that was the drummer, Renelle Gonsalves, his father was a prominent well-known percussionist if I’m not mistaken.

Hugh:
Cuban?

Lamont:
Yes. But anyway, so yeah, they all decided… if you recall the second album that they did was called ‘Journey To The Light’, its album cover is with them looking up like they’re going to be beamed up by Scotty.

Hugh:
Well to me that album cover is kind of like the quintessential Detroit show band post, you know, and what I mentioned before about the costumes, the attitude, the kind of the misty smoke on stage, that sort of thing.

Lamont:
Yeah, yeah. What I did was when I left the band we had already submitted our material for the second album and so the bassist that they ended up getting to take my place was a former student…

Hugh:
Deon Estus, friend of mine

Lamont:
Yes, you mentioned him in the earlier segment,

Hugh:
We’ll make a note of that now

Lamont:
Yes he went on to play with Wham and George Michaels, he played with Benny and the Jets, Elton John, and he’s rubbed shoulders with a lot… he went over to England, man, and did quite a few big things.

Hugh:
I was gigging around town in those days, you know the 2 years after you left Brainstorm and I remember Deon Estus coming into my gig a couple times and “Hey I’m Deon Estus, Brainstorm’s bass player!” He was a cool brother.

Lamont:
He was very proud to be there and what he did was he was fortunate bass lines were already laid down for him so he basically just played my bass lines vibrato changed his world

Hugh:
No I can feel that for sure and he wasn’t quite as comfortable with it as you but I mean he sounded great.

Lamont:
I think Deon he slayed it, man, I loved his playing and then the fact that he chose to use… that gave him some identity…

Hugh:
Like the very beginning of that album, the second Brainstorm album starts with Dion playing a funk riff, did he get that from you?

Lamont:
“On Our Way Home”? Yeah… at the tail end come on now, the tail end of that riff….

Hugh:
Yeah I remember it, that was Lamont for sure, I mean we know that’s Lamont, nobody can tell me that’s not Lamont.

Lamont:
But he was more of a popper than I was and I didn’t play a lot of popping, I was all fingers. So yeah, but anyway, that’s my feeling about the being signed, not to take away from the opportunity, Clarence Avon still handed me my dream, everybody dreams to do a solo album, come on now, that was wonderful, one my favorite moments of my life that’s riding through the mountains in between sessions listening to them recording the little bad tracks we just left we just laid down, and in my little luxury rent-a-car that the company’s taking care of, it was like the life, it was the whole package, man. And back in the day the budgets were so large, they put you up in nice places, I was able to take 6 musicians out to California to record on my album, yeah Norma Jean Bell was one, Buddy Buttsen, Randy Jacobs, Jerry Dirkson, my goodness, I’m forgetting somebody… oh, Renee Williams, she sung this great ballad, man, ‘Easy Come Easy Go’,

Hugh:
Oh yeah. So I was lucky enough to kind of be orbiting your circle in those days and I do remember how cool it was.

Lamont;
Well you sat in on a lot of the sessions for my submissions, my demos, yeah. As a matter of fact, Ron, good friend of mine, Ron Rico played drums on a lot of songs that I submitted for the project, yeah, fine drummer and singer, man. Gotta do something again.

Hugh:
Yeah we’re going to do something with Ron and…

Lamont:
We’ll get something with 2 bass players, man, come on now.

Hugh:
I play keyboard too, man, everybody here in Florida knows me as a keyboard player.

Lamont:
Well that’s the bomb because that will give me a chance to play some vibrato

Hugh:
Well that was amazing hanging around Cloudborn studios back in 1978 I think it was, and also you were the one that gave birth to my signature catchphrase that everybody knows me from, “Quit cryin’, quit cryin’,” So everybody here in Florida knows me for that, I don’t know why but that just sort of took over for me and Ron after you told him that one time.

Lamont:
Well I heard the track that you laid down and I’m lovin’ it, it’s on my page. You know I still do business with Gary, I do all my projects with Gary, Gary Craig, the owner of Cloudborn, he has a new studio and it’s amazing. He’s out there near the big… not a stadium, what is it, a palace where the Detroit Pistons play near Auburn Hills and DTE the stage, big stage out here one of the amphitheaters, yeah he’s doing well, he’s really doing great…

Hugh:
And this was the guy that was the proprietor of Cloudborn studios?

Lamont:
It’s still called Cloudborn…

Hugh:
And he’s still there?

Lamont:
Not at the same location but he’s still in business, yes.

Hugh:
Cloudborn I think was kind of where I cut my teeth on how to do production, even though I was just kind of hanging around I just soaked up everything and now I’m a mastering engineer and a producer and a lot of my know-how, my feel comes from those days in Cloudborn just hanging out with you and doing that stuff.

Lamont:
You got to see this guy, he’s amazing, I call him the professor of pro-tools. I love editing and I’ll have editing sessions with him and his knowledge and how to get around software it’s just incredible from taking vibrato out of a voice to creating a brand new solo out of 5 or 6 tracks. It’s like telling a story.

Hugh:
It’s pretty amazing, so if you don’t mind, that brings me to some of the present day stuff and I noticed that you did a big production with a lady named Dal Bouey?

Lamont:
Dal Bouey, and we were talking about people who lived a life of a performer, a true performer,

Hugh:
I could see that she’s one of those

Lamont:
This girl will go the grocery store and you’ll think that she’s getting ready to get on stage.

Hugh:
I could tell that just from looking at her pictures here.

Lamont:
Oh yeah and that is one of the things that got my attention. My wife and I were at the casino, Dal performs a lot at the casino, and when I seen her perform, how she was living the dream and how she was carrying herself, I observed her on her breaks and then I seen her again off the stage at I think at a mall or something, you know what I thought, people should have been running to sign, to get autographs, and so I seen her one more and it was just such consistency and then I finally had to say something to her, and sure enough, I’m sure she’s been approached by many people, but fortunately for me she took my genuineness I guess and we were able to do a project because can you imagine how many people probably approached her not only because of the way she looked, you know, the superficial stuff, but people who even had things to really offer, and the word ??? (28:45) followed my presentation, money didn’t follow mine and she chose mine. Have you ever heard the project?

Hugh:
Yes I have.

Lamont:
Okay I thought it turned out pretty nice considering we had no budget.

Hugh:
Yeah it’s great, it’s very high quality

Lamont:
Boy that’s great, I’m glad you heard of it and I’m glad you liked it. Let’s see here I produced a young man by the name of Greg Mathis, he’s a flugel hornist, or a flugel player, and he did a few songs that I wrote instrumentally, we even have an instrumental version of This Must Be Heaven, the Brainstorm smash. Have you heard that?

Hugh:
I have not heard that, I would like to.

Lamont:
On that… and I also have re-recorded prior to doing the…prior to the Greg Mathis project, I’ve recorded it myself with Belita Woods who was an original member of Brainstorm, Trenita Womack who was an original member of Brainstorm, and Pat Lewis who used to sing with Isaac Hayes, she’s well known in the R&B field nationally for sure. Let’s see, who else do I have on there that you may be aware of… Van Cephus, keyboard player…

Hugh:
It’s not the same Van that’s on the Detroit bass players list?

Lamont:
Yes he is, he’s the same, but he also was a member of the Detroit group Chapter Eight…

Hugh:
Oh yeah, which had Anita Baker as the lead singer before she was famous.

Lamont:
Yes, yes exactly, I recorded on… I did a guest appearance on that first album, I sung a little background and did an intro on a song, they had a bass player, fine guy, Dave Washington was his name. I loved that band, they were one of the funkiest bands in the city, I thought they were funkier than Brainstorm but we had more of a crossover thing going on..

Hugh:
Yeah that was kind of more R&B soul from…

Lamont:
That’s what they were, they were R&B soul, Johnny Taylor… and really back in those times R&B was more blues…

Hugh:
And of course Anita’s signature sound…

Lamont:
Yeah she was a little girl, man, she was such a small lady

Hugh:
Well I know, I used to drive her home after the gig, back in the day I was working with her in the local bands, she’s just a little girl, I remember

Lamont:
That is a great segue, the last time I had seen her prior to her becoming Anita Baker, big letters and all, was I seen her at the bus stop and she had her nurse’s outfit on… and yeah I offered her a ride and she said, “No the bus is going to be here in a minute, that’s all right, thank you,” and we were cool, that’s how the conversation went, and so I hated leaving her, leaving her and she’s got her white on and anyway… so years went by, the next thing I know she’s got her… she’s a star! And I seen her on the cable and she was doing Sweet Love or something, and I mean she had put on a little weight and I mean she looked like a WOMAN!! And her style though was almost John Cocker-ish, if I may say…

Hugh:
Joe Cocker?

Lamont:
Joe… did I say John? Yeah Joe Cocker-ish. She would cringe her body and make the faces and everything but she was pulling it off!

Hugh:
Well she has something that nobody else had, George Duke ran with it, it was the bomb

Lamont:
Albright, was his name Albright? The bassist who also played saxophone?

Hugh:
Gerald?

Lamont:
Gerald, yes, I’ll never forget seeing that concert. And she just blew me away and I knew she was destined to be a star, and I just never would have imagined her being an individual coming out of the city like that.

Hugh:
Right, well she was very different than what she looks like now and I talked to Kern Brantley a couple years ago and he was working as her musical director and I told her to say hi to her for me and he was like “Oh I don’t think I can approach her,”

Lamont:
Oh he was Anita Baker’s musical director?

Hugh:
He was a couple years ago, yeah.

Lamont:
That is great, man, that guy has worked with Neo… no, no, his brother works with Neo…

Hugh:
Right, Usher…

Lamont:
Yeah, Valdez, yes, Usher, yes, man both of those guys are talented brothers.

Hugh:
And just to tie this up with me, I’ve known Kern since 1983, my first day working with Norma Jean Bell is when I met Kern because he had got a gig with Earl Klugh…

Lamont:
Right right. Oh I forgot to mention somebody else, I’ll let you get back to it… he had got a gig with Earl Klugh…

Hugh:
Well it’s just that I had got the gig playing bass with Norma Jean Bell when Kern left her group and my first night with Norma Jean Bell was Kern’s last night with Norma Jean Bell, and Earl Klugh was there, Greg Phillinganes and a couple of other big people were down there, it was quite a big night.

Lamont:
You are definitely talking about Axels. You’re talking about a club, I can tell you, let me tell you this one. You’re talking about a club… have you ever seen the movie with… Purple Rain? The movie Purple Rain? Remember the club where Prince had his thing going on? And then there was the time that had their thing going on, well, Axel started out with a group called Rapture, that was my group, Axel’s was just a little dive on the corner, I mean people would just walk in and walk out, it was nothing, it was nothing, like a dead saloon. Well, we started playing there, Rapture. In that group I had a guy by the name of John Katalenic on keyboards, I had a guy by the name of Al Pano on percussions who sung like Stevie Wonder, and he also played drums… a guy by the name of Jimmy Amin, he was the keyboardist from Down River who was one of the most soulful dudes… he didn’t even look like he’d be a soulful as he is… reminded me of… McDonald? Michael McDonald? Yeah he had that type of a thing going on. And then I had Jimmy Ryan on drums…

Hugh:
I know him too

Lamont: Do you? Okay, he was the least known. And the guitarist was McCoy, Mark McCoy, fine, fine player, if he hadn’t gone into Country he could have been a star. He had the look, he had the twang and I heard some of his material and I guess you just have to want it. And then we had the great Norma Jean Bell who was a novelty and a freak of music. And come on, we all know that when you have a great novelty like that you’re gonna draw people, and then when you top it off with some great music and fantastic musicians, I mean, you got a circus going on, that’s exactly what went on every night we played. We packed that joint, man, it was slamming, I can’t remember how long we did it. Well, as with a lot of successful things, personality problems cropped up, and Normal Jean Bell, she eventually had to make her exit, she was helped.

Hugh:
She was what?

Lamont:
She was helped... she was helped out of the band

Hugh:
You mean she became like an unpopular…

Lamont:
We had to replace her…

Hugh:
Okay, did she just get a little too big for her britches or something?

Lamont:
Well there was a number of things, I don’t want to badmouth but there were things she shouldn’t have done…

Hugh:
You know what, I love Norma Jean Bell to death and I had a great time working with her but she can be treacherous…

Lamont:
Well some people have a hard time being a member, a follower, okay, a team player… and then there are those who are just destined to be leaders and she was destined to be a leader… I myself I pride myself on being able to be a team player and a leader, I excel at both, you can call it ego, if you want, arrogance, but I’m not ashamed of my success. So anyway when the club owner got wind that we were wanting to dismiss Ms. Bell, club-owner he lost his mind. He thought that we were crazy… he wasn’t a musician, he couldn’t see the value of what we were doing, and so we kept on going, we were able to sustain. You know what the club owner did? He loved what she brought to the table so much, he opened up during happy hour and had entertainment during happy hour and offered her the same kind of arrangement, and sure enough, it was a very shrewd deal for him because he had the place hopping and packed at happy hour with Norma Jean’s following, he would clear the place and then our following would come in at 9 o’clock and we’d take it all the way to 2 o’clock, sometimes we’d play over, but that man was making money! So that went on for quite some time, we all had a great time, it was competitive, some of her people would stick around and then there was a little animosity going on, it was almost like gangs

Hugh:
This was around like 1982 are we talking?

Lamont:
’81, ’82, exactly. And yeah, so Norma, she decided she had to have the nighttime slot, and so she goes to the club owner and she wants the nighttime slot and she wants us to do the happy hour… well we had musicians, man, and that type of a crowd… she had more of a cult following because she always had a popular band in the city, Norma Jean and the All-Stars

Hugh:
Well I was in that group later, but she also had amazing career around Detroit, Lyman Woodard, didn’t she work with him?

Lamont:
Yes, that was prior to Axel’s…

Hugh:
Yeah, I mean that was through the ‘70’s and ‘60’s even I remember seeing that…

Lamont:
Oh Norma Jean was definitely prior early established, that’s why she was able to pack the joint the way she did, but I wouldn’t say that our success was based totally on her success. But to make a long story short the club owner, he gave in, gave her the nighttime slot, gave us the day slot and we lost over half of our following because our followers were people who went out at night. And eventually members started leaving, the keyboard player he left to work for Disney, and I just spoke with him last week… John Katalenic, and he’s been working with Disney ever since then, he’s done big shots with the Disneyland.

Hugh:
Yeah I got some friends down here that work for the Mouse too!

Lamont:
Okay, for the Mouse, yeah, there you go. So I got 2 people to visit when I come down there, that’ll be great. Yeah so eventually I turned the band into a Top 40 band, I had to go and approach the agents and so we started doing the hotel scene and the Top 40 bars, there’s a bass solo that I do that’s on YouTube, it was during that era that I played the solo on, and…

Hugh:
You’re playing Music Man bass, right?

Lamont:
Exactly, right.

Hugh:
I think that used to be my bass

Lamont:
Say it again?

Hugh:
I think that used to be my bass, actually…

Lamont:
Did I buy a bass from you?

Hugh:
We traded.

Lamont:
Did we?

Hugh:
Yeah…

Lamont:
Yeah I finally got a bass within the last year that sounds like that bass and I used to regret getting rid of that bass.

Hugh:
Ron told me you’re on a Ripper now

Lamont:
You know what, I got a Ripper and I went on and sold it. It didn’t really give me what I needed but I’ve got this sterling Music Man right now and you’ll have to tear it from my arms.

Hugh:
So do you think you’ve got a few more minutes to cover a couple more things?

Lamont:
Yes, I’m fine.

Hugh:
Okay, since we touched on Norma Jean Bell, I would want to just recall that the… like the next time I saw Norma after I saw her with Lyman Woodard… and then I ended up working with Norma later on, but before that I went to a concert… I’ve seen Frank Zappa 3 times in my life and the third time I saw him, Norma Jean Bell was playing in the group, I think it was at Chrysler Arena in Ann Arbor… huge, huge venue. And Norma was there and Napoleon Murphy Brock was with her, I think George Duke was in the group too and I did have a chance to talk to Norma about her time with Zappa and I’d like to actually get her on an interview, but I do know that you actually met Frank Zappa and you have some history with Frank Zappa too and I was wondering if you’d be interested in telling us about that.

Lamont:
Well I don’t have history of playing with Frank, but I’ll let you in on the biggest fork in the road of my musical life. I was playing with Brainstorm, it was right after we had recorded our first album, the one that I spoke of earlier, this was before going to Soul Train… as a matter of fact this was before we even went on the air, we were given a homecoming party at a place called Chances Are or Second Chance…

Hugh:
Yes, in Ann Arbor, Michigan, that’s where I was born and raised…

Lamont:
Right, and it was on the night of… well on that day was the rival of MSU and U of M, you know they always had a rival

Hugh:
It was Michigan State and Michigan University Football…

Lamont:
Exactly. And that place was jumping, it was hopping…

Hugh:
Yeah cause those frat boys get crazy in those football games…

Lamont:
Oh man, and it was the perfect saloon, it was the perfect saloon with balconies and it was a great place

Hugh:
Well it has a big raised stage in the center and it has a balcony around it so it’s almost like a boxing ring it looks like…

Lamont:
Yes it was, well I’m playing the ??? (45:09) and we’re enjoying our homecoming party and there’s this big banner, “Welcome home Brainstorm, Congratulations” and my buddy I mentioned earlier, Ron Rico, he was there. And he came running over to me after one of our sets and at the time they called me Stro, like Castro…

Hugh:
Yeah okay, I remember they calling you Castro, man, I remember that.

Lamont:
Yeah, well I used to wear Army jackets, and I always had a beard and so they called me Castro.

Hugh:
Right, right, you did have that Fidel ambiance about you didn’t you? Well that’s a little different down here in Miami, you try to pull that down here…

Lamont:
Hey, I wouldn’t dare, baby. But anyway, he comes over to me, I’m putting my bass down I’ll never forget this moment, “Stro, you’ll never believe who’s here, never believe who’s here!” I mean he’s excited, he’s been running, “And he’s here to see YOU!” that’s the way he said it….

Hugh:
I can hear it!

Lamont:
And so he tells me, I said, “Get outta here,” you know, and now I never was very much of a rock-n-roll follower, okay, but everyone knew of Zappa, okay, but I didn’t know very much about his music, I didn’t even know he was the comic that he was either. But I knew he was a famous guy, famous, really famous. And I knew that Ralphe played with him, Ralphe Armstrong and so I went on over, or you know what, maybe Ralphe… either Ralphe played with them or either Ralphe was offered the gig and he recommended me because he couldn’t do it. Now, but anyway…

Hugh:
I remember Ralphe playing with Mahavishnu but I don’t remember him playing with Zappa.

Lamont:
Okay well from John McLaughlin and Mahavishnu, he went on with Jean-Luc Ponty, and so maybe he wanted to stay with Jean-Luc… whatever, I never did get that story, but when I finally…

Hugh:
But I did get that album with Ralphe Armstrong and Patrice Rushen, ‘Upon the Wings of Music’, great album

Lamont:
Oh yeah, he did a couple of them… he did 2 or 3 albums with them. Well Ron takes me over to Zappa, and sure enough standing there and I’ll never forget the conversation, man, a little short guy but he looked insane man, he was like, “Ah yeah I like the way you play,” that’s the way he sounds, and “you really could add a lot to what we’re doing over… why don’t you let me fly you on over and if you like it… if you don’t like it… I’ll give you… you can even have your ticket with you all the time, you can just fly away,” and so I told him I said, “Well,” oh and he said, “A good friend of yours told me to tell you hi, Ralphe Armstrong,” and that’s when I knew that’s the connection, and so I told him I said, “Well you know I don’t read…” you know what, when I made that comment I must have had known a little bit about his music because his arrangements were quite extravagant and… even though they were at that time to me corny as hell. I mean, his melodies and everything were just so abstract and it was like listening to a cartoon, and so, but anyway, I told him I didn’t read he said, “Oh I’ll teach you no problem, we’ll just go over the material,” I mean this guy was able to bend over backwards for me here, and again in retrospect, God, man, what an honor… and I mean I had no idea at the time that it was such an honor but at the same time recording an album in my idiom R&B and pop music and playing all that bass and singing the popular R&B, the only male vocal song on the album, you know back in the day ??? (49:36) really got their way, you know, and this wasn’t even released yet, writing all those…

Hugh:
Oh, Stormin’?

Lamont:
….songs on, [oh my goodness I’ve got to pick up my daughter…] Well yeah, writing all of those songs that, you know, out of 8 compositions was just, I mean I had stars in my eyes…

Hugh:
Yeah well you were just getting ready to release Stormin’, is that what you’re saying?

Lamont:
Right, exactly. So I couldn’t do that and I had to turn it down…

Hugh:
Oh, you turned down Zappa…

Lamont:
Yes, I turned down Zappa, how about that. In retrospect, that was quite a turndown.

Hugh:
Well I mean it’s kind of like saying, you know, do you want to do your thing and throw down, or do you want to come in and be like a special case over here and have to learn all this like really, really bizarre stuff and really be put on the spot, and I can understand your choice totally.

Lamont:
Oh yeah it was definitely the right decision, however, it was another decision… it was a decision that could have gone and changed my life tremendously. Yeah man, that was a huge decision for me but easy to make if I may put it that way. I think I made the right decision, you know, I mean really, of course I made the right decision, but it was quite an opportunity…

Hugh:
Well, things are done for a reason and things happen for a reason, Normal Jean Bell told me a little bit about her experience with Frank Zappa, and this is third party hearsay so I don’t… you know I’m just tell you what she told me but she told me that he was really, really, really strict, extremely strict to the point where the reason she stopped working with him was because he demanded that she stay in California during the Christmas holidays and practice his materials for 8 hours a day in the hotel room rather than go home for Christmas…

Lamont:
Get out of here…

Hugh:
And she said, yeah, she said, “Screw it I’m going home for Christmas,” and she went home and he fired her for that, that’s what she told me.

Lamont:
Because she went home for Christmas…

Hugh:
Yeah!

Lamont:
Wow…

Hugh:
So that’s what you would have been in for if you were hired, you know…

Lamont:
Well another thing too, another way to look at it too is if I hadn’t gone the ??? (53:10) route, I would have been a side man of Zappa…

Hugh:
Right, exactly

Lamont:
With Brainstorm it was MY show, you know…

Hugh:
And it was your idiom…

Lamont:
But the thing that gets me the most is all the people that I would have met… I would have been, I would have gotten a promotion when it came down to recognition, it would have been dues… sure I would have paid dues with Zappa, but those dues could have taken me into, as they say in music “The stratosphere,” you know… who knows where I could be

Hugh:
I mean, woulda, coulda, shoulda, we can speculate that that would certainly would have cemented your reputation as an individualistic player… if not already so that we know but that would have been another thing that really sets you apart from all the other bass players. And it does, even in as the story goes now it does set you apart…

Lamont:
It’s incredible, I mean the exposure though, the exposure would have been ??? (54:30)

Hugh:
Right, exactly

Lamont:
And that’s if I hadn’t gone there and ??? (54:35) and taken his offer, I mean, who knows I would have got in there and been ???? but in order to even explore it, I would have had to have exited Brainstorm because there was not way to just leave, chased it a little bit and then come back to Brainstorm…

Hugh:
No, absolutely not and there’s no way you could have just jumped ship from Brainstorm at that time…

Lamont:
That’s my point, yeah, I mean the though of even entertaining anything like that would have just, I mean… like I said before it was already….

Hugh:
Yeah what’s that old expression… it’s an old expression like I’d rather rule in hell than serve in heaven…

Lamont:
Yeah, yeah, yeah…

Hugh:
Which is not very nice… it’s not a very nice saying but I’ve heard it before…

Lamont:
Hey, at least when you rule you can call the shots…

Hugh:
Exactly. This might be a mess but it’s my mess…

Lamont:
It’s my mess, exactly. And when they say there’s another they say you make your own heaven and hell

Hugh:
Yes, I agree with that for sure.

Lamont:
So if I’m the ruler baby, I’m making it.

Hugh:
Okay well, it kind of sounds like, you know, I mean this has gone on for quite some time, and I really, really appreciate you taking this time to do this, and I know that life is calling you and we should probably bring this to a close now, and I’m hoping that you’ll be open to talk to us again…

Lamont:
You bet, man, I’ve got so much more I could share.

Hugh:
I know, and we’ve started to touch things here and there’s a lot more so I’d like to get you on the phone with Ron Rico too and have you guys do a little exploring of that time…

Lamont:
That would be great. I would like to…

Hugh:
Yes sir? Go ahead…

Lamont:
And maybe then we’ll, what were you going to say?

Hugh:
I was going to say maybe next week we can do that

Lamont:
That sounds great,

Hugh:
Awesome

Lamont:
I would like to also say in closing on a personal note, it’s special people like you and Ron that I definitely treasure because you guys were there when my most fondest memories took place. And I do appreciate this project that you’re doing because I get a chance to talk about it, that’s why you can’t shut me up, I could probably talk more hours, it was just a wonderful thing I know you’re recording it and hell I’ll listen back to this many times before, many more times before I would listen to my favorite song.

Hugh:
Wow, well that’s fantastic, I’m so glad that we can do this.

Lamont:
It’s like looking at pictures.

Hugh:
And I don’t know what the recording sounds like, I hope it comes out well, I’ll find out as soon as we get off, it’s just been wonderful to talk to you, I just can’t tell you how much I appreciate you sharing this with me, with Vincent, with the public, and I think it’s a great thing that you’re doing and we just appreciate it so much.

Lamont:
Well thank you.

Hugh:
And on a personal note, just for all the listeners to know… Lamont is my hero, I have a number of heroes but Lamont is one of the more important heroes in my life, I’ve known him since the mid ‘70’s and he’s a tremendous influence on my musicianship, and possibly my personality… so if you don’t like me you can blame Lamont, no just kidding…

Lamont;
There you go, there you go, send em my way, baby.

Hugh:
And if they don’t like me I’ma tell them to Quit Cryin’!

Lamont:
Quit Cryin’!

Hugh:
Quit Cryin’!

Lamont:
You take care, man

Hugh:
Okay thank you so much, Lamont, and we’ll talk to you again soon, brother, God bless you.

Lamont:
Okay now, bye now.

Hugh: Bye.