Vince:
Good afternoon people, this is Vince Morris, I'm your announcer for this day and this is Unsung Hero's radio and today I'm going to bring to light an unsung hero, drummer, musician and activist, in your face… he's going to be sharing with you his views, his opinions, his heart about the music business and the current state that it's in. Let me introduce to you Mr. Ron Morris. Say hi to the people out there in internet land, Mr. Ron Morris!

Ron:
I'm saying hi to everybody out there in Internet Land, how are you doing! I hope all is well. Peace!

Vince:
All right! So for the first installment in Volume 1 of Unsung Hero, Mr. Morris, tell me, who is Ronrico Morris and where are you from?

Ron:
Well, Ronrico Morris is an aspiring musician, and I'm from Ann Arbor, Michigan. Originally born and raised and have roots in Georgia, ‘cause all our family is from there, and I'm a drummer and I worked with….

Vince:
Well, before you go there -- before you go into who you worked with, tell me all… you just play drums, or are you a percussionist, or…. all the instruments that you play?

Ron:
Okay, well I play drums, and I play a little percussion. I don't consider myself a percussionist, because being a drummer -- you understand, that that's a totally different idiom, in terms of -- you know -- rhythm, so it's the same, but yet it's different -- the approach is totally different. So that's the thing with that! But I do play percussion, I do put my hands on the congas, I do put my hands on the bongos, I do put my hands on timbales, and cowbells and all the other stuff because it's all relative, it's all the same. It's just a whole ‘nother approach.

Vince:
And so, tell the audience who have you worked with?

Ron:
People I've worked with… we let's see, Was Not Was, I worked with Hubert Sumlin, I worked with Johnny Clyde Copeland, I worked with Koko Taylor when I lived in Chicago, Jimmy Johnson, Sugar Blue, when I lived in Chicago and I worked with Big Moose who was a blues artist out of Chicago and I lived in Chicago for a while and I really wasn't even playing any blues in Chicago except with Koko and the rest of them but the main thing I was doing when I moved to Chicago was reggae and I used to be one of the staff drummers at the Wild Hit Reggae Club, which is one of the premiere reggae clubs in Chicago down by Wrigley Field.

Vince:
So of the genres of music what would you say is your strongest musical genre that you play?

Ron:
Well basically a lot of what I do is based on funk and R&B, so I deal with a lot of funk and R&B and blues and pretty much anything, you know, I mean I'm a musician I'm into music so I love everything, I love all music. I'm involved in the World Music Project here in Michigan and that's something that I put together basically because of the fact that I wanted to bring all the different cultures together and basically demonstrate how all this music is relative, nothing… you know, it's not separated. Depending upon geographical location, it doesn't matter. Music is music and it's just a different rhythmic format in each geographical location on this planet. So I try to deal with all of it, I listen to everything; I listen to Celtic music, I listen to… I don't care what it is it can be Russian music, Quebecois music, francophone from France, I listen to a lot of stuff from around the world.

Vince:
So what would separate a drummer from the Detroit area as opposed to a drummer from Los Angeles or New York, tell me a little bit about that.

Ron:
Well the drummers from Detroit are more groove-oriented, the drummers from Detroit such as Ricky Lawson, Gene Dunlap, Tony Robertson, we used to play with Earl Klugh, Gene Dunlap he's got his own albums out, Ricky Lawson was the drummer who started Yellowjackets, these were the guys who were my influences back in the day. And these were the cats who were really making it happen in Detroit when Detroit really had a music scene happenin', and these guys where everywhere, I mean they were all over the place. And a lot of big name musicians used to come to Detroit and used to snatch these musicians up from Detroit. And the thing I like about Detroit, is that as opposed to a lot of cities, is that once you get on a set, once you get on the scene there it's like everybody knows who you are because word of mouth spreads very fast whether you can play or whether you ain't no good,

They'll find out. Detroit has one of the worst audiences in the world in terms of critiquing musicians, it's not… I wouldn't say it's bad, but it's just that it really helps you to get on point. Because they have no problem letting you know outside, or in an alley, if you ain't happening….

Vince:
So they quick to boo you off stage is what you're saying?

Ron:
To crack your head!

Vince:
Oh! They get mad, they get violent! Okay I understand

Ron:
Seriously!

Vince:
Wow, so let me ask you this, if I'm a musician in Detroit, let's say back in the 70's, how would I break into the music scene in Detroit? What would I have to do… what is the process?

Ron:
Well in Detroit back then in the 70's… the way to break into the scene there back then, in the 70's and early 80's, was through Top 40 circuit. A lot of the great musicians that came out of Detroit, such as Ricky Lawson, Lamont Johnson, Brainstorm, P-Funk even, and I can even throw Ohio Players in there, these people, the Ohio Players… Detroit used to have a whole scene of independent record labels; Invictus, West Bound, Motown, different labels like that, they had a lot of Independent labels that were black-owned. And you had groups like The Honeycomb, The Jones Girls, Anita Baker, all kinds of people… Chapter 8, that were recording on these independent labels.

The way to break into the Detroit scene you had to know somebody -- and that person had to be the type of person where they had faith in what you were doing. When I started playing down in Detroit, it was really with Lamont Johnson, the bass player from Brainstorm -- the same guy that Fred Hammond idolized. And Lamont was one of the greatest bass players down there. I mean, Lamont was the type of guy whereas -- people like Frank Zappa, you know what I'm saying, when you saw him… we'll talk about Frank Zappa cause I met him, and in fact how Frank met Lamont was through me. And Frank saw Lamont, and he was flipped out! He was totally flipped out. He wanted him to play bass. The one thing I learned about a lot of musicians from Detroit is that no matter where they went in this country or in the world they had a distinct sound, they had a distinct style just like any other city in this country; like New Orleans, New York, you know.

Detroit was grimy, because it's the auto industry. Just like if you went to New York, it's grimy -- because you have the music business there, as well as all kinds of other businesses. But the thing is that it's the city -- and that whole mentality of the city is totally different than when you're dealing with people from the South, you know, where it's just a little more close-knit.

The whole thing in the city, especially Detroit, it was a very competitive atmosphere, period! In Detroit, Ypsilanti, Ann Arbor, I don't care where it was in Michigan -- but it was a very competitive atmosphere. Musicians, bands, were always trying to dust each other off stage. So you had to be good! You had to be on point! You had to have your thing together. Because there was somebody around the corner -- and that same thing still stands today -- but there was always somebody around the corner that was watching what you were doing, and they were going to top you, bar none.

Vince:
Wow, that's crazy, you know I just recently found out that Ray Parker Jr. was from Detroit! I never knew that.

Ron:
You didn't know that, Vince?

Vince:
I did not know that, brother.

Ron:
Ray Parker was playing with Stevie Wonder when he was 15 years old.

Vince:
Exactly that's what I just found out and that he left to go to California, he left Stevie's band after 2 months and decided that he was going to go to every studio and audition, he said he would go in a studio and said, "Just listen to me for a minute, and let me play," and they said that the way he played rhythm guitar was from the Funk Brothers, cause he played with the Funk Brothers back in that day! And he was a distinct style -- and it's interesting, because what I didn't know about Ray was that he wrote a song, one of the first hits for Rufus and Chaka Khan! Did you know that?

Ron:
Didn't know that either!

Vince:
Yeah that's… You Got the Love.

Ron:
I did not know that.

Vince:
That was Ray Parker and he wrote that with Chaka Khan!

Ron:
I did not know that. I was just reading about Ray last week, as a matter of fact, and I think it was an article out of Bass Player Magazine, I'm not quite… no, excuse me, it was out of one of the newspaper publications out of Detroit, and it's called "Real Detroit". And they had an article about Michael Henderson in there. Now I know Mike very well, okay, and because Claudia Miller, I don't know if you remember her, God bless her, she's dead now. But she was my roommate, and she was playing with Mike and Luis Resto, who we'll talk about later, who was a co-writer with Eminem, his keyboardist… she also worked with Michael Henderson. Now at that time that's when I was working with Was Not Was, so there was a close connection between Was Not Was and Michael Henderson because we were pretty much using the same musicians, which was really crazy. Carol Hall, who was one of the background singers for Michael Henderson, was also in Was Not Was. She recorded The Beat Goes On; she recorded the first record that Was Not Was came out with. But she… everybody has to understand that Was Not Was wasn't actually a band. I think what Don Was and David Was… well actually, Don Fagensen, and David Weiss, they started this, they started with the concept that this is just going to be a studio concept. And that's all it was, they were really trying to put a band together, they had musicians to use. Because Don, the bass player as well as myself we were both on the Top 40 circuit, we didn't know each other. But the thing about it is that the Top 40 circuit is where a lot of musicians such as Ricky Lawson and all these other cats cut their teeth.

Now, Mike [Michael Henderson] was already out there, because Mike had started playing with Miles Davis when he was what, 16, 17 years old.

Vince:
Which record did he play on, Ron?

Ron:
He was on Bitches Brew and Live Evil; he was on both live albums, he was also on [A Tribute to] Jack Johnson, pretty much all this electric stuff that Miles did up until Miles' retirement, and Marcus Miller came in. Up until then, that was Michael Henderson. Along with people like Eberhard Weber and other bass players, great bass players.

But the groove stuff -- the real R&B funk groove soulful stuff -- was Michael Henderson. And the reason that Miles chose Mike, was because out of Detroit, you've got some of the most soulful, grooving musicians you're ever going to find, besides New Orleans. And that's not to take anything away from any other city in this country, but I'm saying Detroit has a distinct flavor for the groove -- the funk comes here. And what I'm saying is, now I'm going to give you another example:

George Clinton – George is not from Detroit. George is from New Jersey. The Parliaments were from New Jersey. The Funkadelics were from the east side of Detroit, Mt. Clemens. They were a band before George even hooked up with them. They were doing gigs all over the place -- I'm saying all over the place. The Funkadelics. Then when George moved to Detroit with the rest of the guys, that's when he hooked up with P-Funk, that's when he hooked up the Funkadelics.

The Funkadelics were a rock band, and see, Vinny, back then there were a whole lot of black rock bands, I don't like using that terminology, because that's kind of like categorizing something. But I'll say this – there were a lot of rock bands that had black musicians, they were 90% black. Jake Wade and Riot; Bobby Franklin's Insanity; there were a whole lot of groups back then and they would funk out, they would R&B out, they would rock out, they could play a whole variety of stuff, you know what I'm saying? Cause these guys were from the ghetto, man, they were from the hood. You know what I'm saying?

So back then… even when we were growing up Vince, our neighborhood, the west side of Ann Arbor, there were so many musicians in that area. And for me it was horrible because almost everybody over there played drums and they were good, and I wasn't! [laughs] So, as I said back then when we were younger it was a very competitive atmosphere, not that it isn't now but it's friendly competition. But the thing about it was, is that these guys were real serious about whatever it is what they were doing because when a person put a band together back then, it was do or die. This is our band… it's not like today where you can jump from one situation to another situation to another situation. Cats were more committed then -- it's like this is our band, you're our boys, let's do this, and we going to do this until we die.

Vince:
So let me ask you this: when did you know that you were a good drummer, when was that day, can you remember the time when you played and you said, "You know what, I'm kind of good," when was that, when did you have that epiphany?

Ron:
Well I'm gonna tell you this, I ain't gonna - I don't think there really was a time when it came to the point where I felt that I was really good. What happened was, was this:

I was at a club when they called Doug's Body Shop, and that's the club that Aretha Franklin recorded the video "Freeway of Love", riding the freeway in a Pink Cadillac, that whole thing. Now Narada Michael Walden was from Kalamazoo, and we're going to talk about him later -- he was the producer on that. And as a matter of fact I want to mention this to everybody -- now on Michael Walden, back in the day, when he was young, was in a group called Mad Dog and the Pups, which was out of Detroit - you know, the funk group –slash- rock.

But anyway getting back to what I was saying, I was at the club one night, Doug's Body Shop, Hugh Hitchcock who we'll talk about also was with me, and we went there to see a very iconic vocalist out of Detroit by the name of Orthea Barnes. Now, Orthea knows any and everybody involved in the music industry in Detroit. She is very good friends with Aretha Franklin, she knows her dad, she knew her dad, her family knew their family, Orthea, she knew the Spinners, she knew everybody, and everybody knew her. She had a brother named J.J. Burns, who was on the Motown label -- he had 1 hit, and it was a big hit. And anyway, I went down there with Huey and I sat in, because the drummer that was playing with her, his name was Tony Robertson, he was playing with Earl Klugh at that time also, he let me sit in.
So I get up there, I get on the drums, we're doing this Peabo Bryson song. Now at that time, I was really into David Garabaldi and Tower of Power. So I get up there, and I try to --

Vince:
What year was this?

Ron:
Oh God, now there you go… it was probably about, I would say 1977, somewhere around there. And at that time. I was a real Tower of Power fan, Cold Blood fan, all the San Francisco Oakland bands, I was real big fan of all of them, and David Garabaldi. I mean there was nothing he could do… he couldn't do any wrong in my eyes, I mean he was like God. So everything I tried to do, I tried to apply what he did, and it didn't work, because you can't -- David Garabaldi has a style, that fits with Tower of Power, but he can apply it to anything. Because I also saw him play with Denise Williams, and I've seen him play with Jermaine Jackson. And he understood what the funk was all about, but what he did with Tower of Power was totally Tower of Power. Francis Rocco [Prestia bass player with Tower of Power], those boys rock.

Getting back to what I was talking about… Tony Robertson was the drummer with Orthea Barnes. I got up there, he let me sit in, I was screwing up. He walked on stage, that's why I said that Detroit audiences one of the worst audiences you want to play before. Because they WILL let you know what's going on. I'm sure it's the same way in New York and other cities… but anyway, he walked on stage in the middle of the song, took the sticks from me! Told me to go have a seat. He sat down, and just -- played the groove, right then that's when the light bulb went on in my head, I said, all he's doing is rocking that high hat, that snare and that bass drum. And he's keeping it straight in the pocket.

After that night, that's the thing I worked on the most. I would get my little portable cassette player, put in Quincy Jones and Rufus, all kinds of music, man. And I sit down and I would practice for hours. Hours. to Johnny Robinson, David Garabaldi, all these great drummers, Harvey Mason, Steve Gadd, I mean, you know, oh God… the drummers that played with Jean-Luc Ponty, all those cats, man, Casey Sherrell, Steve Smith, you know what I'm saying, great drummers, man.

But I would sit down and practice more to the funk. And that's the thing I focused on the most. Because what I saw was, what he did was he left out all that extra stuff and he just kept it right there in the pocket just boom – bah. And that was that. And I saw how that worked at that point, that's when I realized I had got the secret and all I had to do as work on it.

I have not reached a point yet, Vinny, where I feel as though I'm good. I'll just say this: I'm confident in what I do. I'm not scared, I'm not intimidated by other drummers -- that happened early on with Billy Cobham. I ended up selling my drums! The guy just put immense fear in my heart, and I said if that's the way I got to play, or any drummer's got to play, that's never going to happen -- so forget it.

But anyway, like I said I worked on it, man, I worked on it and I'm still working on it. So I really don't feel like I'm at that point where, you know, I'm satisfied totally, and that may never happen, cause I'm my own worse critic. But I know this: I can get on stage with whoever -- and I'll play.

Vince:
Well I will say this, I will say this: I remember Steven… you know who I'm talking about who used to play… who was with Madonna, Steve….

Ron:
Steven Bray

Vince:
Right. And he told me in New York, he said, you know, he said, "I remember you, Vince, you used to come over to Skoolkids Records" [historical used record store in Ann Arbor, MI where Steve worked] and I said, "Yeah I remember you now." And he said, "I used to hate your brother -- every time he would come to an audition, all the other drummers would leave!" They already knew that they weren't going to get the gig -- they knew when you walked in, that was it!

So there was a point, I hear what you're saying, but there's a point where you got to the point where you were able to get the gig with Was Not Was, so how did that happen? Explain that to me… how did you get that job?

Ron:
It's really strange that you ask me that question, because… you know what? And Don is probably going to hate me for this, but I really wasn't trying to play with him. I got the gig because…. Okay you remember me explaining to you about Claudia Miller, who was my roommate? Well her boyfriend was David Mason [guitarist from Sky King]. Claudia Miller was already playing with Michael Henderson.

And Luis Resto was in there -- we're going to talk about Luis a little later too. In case anybody doesn't know who Luis Resto is, Luis Resto is the guy who accepted the Academy Award from Barbara Streisand when Eminem refused and boycotted the Academy Awards. Right on, nephew. Anyway, that guy right there, that guy, that's who… we been playing together since he was 15 years old.

Vince:
So what song did he write that he won an Academy Award? The people need to know what that is.

Ron:
Academy Award is for they were awareded best film, that I think he got it for?

Vince:
But what song? What's the name of the song that he participated in?

Ron:
Oh, I'm sorry, the 8-Mile Soundtrack, the movie.

Vince:
Okay so it was "Lose Yourself"… the song Lose Yourself?

Ron:
The whole album! If you look at the movie in the credits, it says the music is by Eminem and Luis Resto, those two, and that's it.

Vince:
Oh, wow!

Ron:
Luis's talented, man, the man can play bass like Jaco Pastorius, get on keyboards and play like Herbie Hancock and Joe Zawinul… he's probably playing drums now, I'll probably have to break his arms, you know what I'm saying!

Vince[laughs]

Ron
And his brother Mario is an awesome musician also and we all had a band together at one point. We'll talk about that later too.

But anyway, getting back to what I was originally talking about. Um…

I reached a point -- I had always been real insecure about my playing, because I have always compared myself to other drummers. And the problem with that is that whenever you compare yourself to someone else who's better than you, you feel as though you'll never reach that point. Even though that person is your guideline for what you're going for, it's like, you know, you -- Vinny. Bill Evans, you being a keyboard player, you know, Bill Evans, Herbie Hancock, you know Joe Zawinul, you know, I can go on and on, the cats that influenced you, as well as the Gospel. You know, you were totally involved in that.

And then the other thing about you is the fact that you're a songwriter, so it's like that whole concept of being a songwriter, hearing certain things a certain way, and also being a keyboard player, but the idiom -- the genre that you're into is not the same thing as Herbie Hancock's or Joe Zawinul, but still it doesn't matter cause what you're doing, you're applying that same concept to whatever it is that you're doing whether it be pop, whether it be gospel, whatever it may be.

You're still bringing those jazz elements, those jazz funk fusion elements, those fusion elements, all the elements you were exposed to and baptized in. You're bringing all that to whatever it is that you do.

So everything that I've listened to, you know what I'm saying, the musicians, and it wasn't just drummers, you know -- I listen to guitar players, I love a good guitar player! I'm just, I love them… Eric Clapton, Stevie Ray Vaughn, Jimmy Ray Vaughn, Dor Brownhall Jr., ???? Charlie Sexton he's the guy with Texas, I love these cats, man, that's just to name a few, but I'm really a frustrated guitar player who happens to play drums! I feel like at this point right now, I'm not there yet, but I'm almost there.

Vince:
Okay so how did you get the gig with Was Not Was, that's the question here?

Ron:
Okay, the gig with Was Not Was was a suggestion from Dave Mason who was the guitarist that I lived with at the time, and that was Claudia Miller's boyfriend. And we had a band together, and he said to me Was Not Was was looking for a drummer and I had heard the record on the radio and the record that was on the radio at that time was called "The Woodwork Squeaks and Out Come the Freaks"!

Vince:
Say that one more time, slowly.

Ron:
Wood-work-Squeaks-and-Out-Comes-the-Freaks! And this record was about actual people, actual people that Don and David knew or had met, and they made a song about it, and it's pretty tripped out, you know what I'm saying? So… and when I first heard it, I couldn't relate to it, I'll be honest about it. Don might be mad at me, but I couldn't relate to it.

And then Dave says to me that Was Not Was was looking for a drummer, and I'm like, "Well, okay, whatever!" So I go down with him, I audition…. And you know, we played the song by LTD called "Back in Love Again." We played that song, man, for about a half hour, the same groove, over, and over, and over again. Don was trying to find that pocket, to see if I had that pocket, you know what I'm saying, just rocking cause he playing bass.

After 30 minutes of playing that same groove over and over, and I was totally bored, and he was like, "Dude, you got the gig,". I was like, "Cool," but I didn't know what was up ahead, we'll talk about that later -- but I didn't know what was up ahead, brother, you know, what these guys were really doing.

I knew they had a record on the radio and the record was doing good, and this band amongst it, the youth of Detroit the black youth of Detroit, they loved and idolized Was Not Was -- I'm serious. We used to come out of rehearsal, and there'd be like 15 kids, no older than 13 standing out there asking for autographs! I'm like wow, what is this, a teenybopper band or something? I mean, you know, why is there all these babies, you know what I'm saying? Where are the females! [laughs]

Vince:
Right, exactly, exactly.

Ron:
Females were there but they weren't in Detroit…. [laughs] a lot of kids!

Vince:
Okay so I'ma jump ahead here, so you got the gig with Was Not Was, so the time that you got the gig, when they told you that you were going to be the drummer and the actual playing with the group, what was… how long was that between that time?

Ron:
He gave me a gig the same day.

Vince:
Oh wow, okay.

Ron:
And I started rehearsing the very next day, the very next day. And the interesting point -- John Smith who… he was a former engineer at Motown, he was the engineer on the Was Not Was albums, and he pretty much worked with Don and David, and giving them studio time and whatnot to work in the studio, and you know make the album happen.

And they had people such as Ron Banks from the Dramatics, Michael Henderson, Lamont Johnson, he contributed some stuff. There was a lot of Detroit musicians contributed something to that project and, you know, those guys are still there, a lot of them, and Was Not Was was not a big band by -- how can I put it -- they weren't a big band by Neilson Ratings standards. But they were, they were a cult band. And what's so strange about it is the people who were into the band, besides the kids of Detroit were big artists such as -- Vincent, when I was out in New York, who did you tell me was in the club when we played the Mudd Club?

Vince:
I'm trying to remember, it's been so long…

Ron:
Nile Rodgers?

Vince:
Right, right, okay that's right

Ron:
And I met Andy Warhol, Jean Michel Basquiat, Talking Heads was there -- and as a matter of fact there was Lynn Mabry from the Brides of Funkenstein, I got to let everybody know that the Brides of Funkenstein were a part of the band too, Lynn Mabry and Dawn Silva. The Brides of Funkenstein were the female vocalists on all Parliament-Funkadelic records, so everybody knows who they are. Those girls were in the band too. They introduced me to Talking Heads, and we'll talk about them later too, cause that was very interesting -- I didn't even know who Talking Heads was!

Vince:
Yeah I remember that. I remember when we were all hanging out and I remember hanging out with Dawn, with you, and we ran into George Clinton, that was surreal to me, absolutely! I couldn't believe it! George Clinton….

Ron:
We were in the Matrix!

Vince:
I'm telling you, man, I freaked out! I was sitting there, I was like, this cannot be happening! [laughs]

Ron:
YOU freaked out? I freaked out, because I'm like, did he come walking down the street the guy's like 8 thousand feet tall with a broken nose and they're riding up in this raggedy Caddilac limousine, it was an old school like a 1972 or something but… and George comes walking down the street with that 10 gallon hat on … that he had on the album cover of Aqua Boogie. I immediately, you immediately, we knew who he was -- the hat! [laughs]

Vince:
Unbelievable, never forget that. That was the most oddest of meeting Jaco Pastorius before he died, so that was one of….

Ron:
He's an icon!

Vince:
Unbelievable. So before we shut this down I want you to talk about the one thing that is on musicians minds today, and I think it's the plight of being a musician, you know, in today's climate, and just briefly… and on the second part we'll go over this. But what is it looking like in Detroit now? In the 2000's?

Ron:
I'm really glad that you asked me that question, Vinny, because there's a huge void in the music industry. Or should I say in the local music scene -- and I think that's probably the case in pretty much all over the United States. Because when we spoke with Huey Hitchcock, and we'll talk about him later on, and he's in Miami, and he told me about how there's no work there, and Miami is one of the key places that a lot of the Top 40 bands from Detroit went to. Miami, Fort Lauderdale, The Keys, you know, during the winter time, and they had, you know, engagements at clubs, man for 2, 3, 4 months during the winter months. And these clubs would put them up, there's none of that happening now.

Detroit used to have a thriving Top 40 scene, okay so you're doing a jukebox, but the thing about it is, is that when you're playing 4 or 5 nights a week, 3, 4, 5 sets a night, that will get you on point if you're serious about your craft. Now if you're just a cat that just there making money to pay your mortgage, you know what I'm saying, you've got a wife, a couple little young kids, whatever, you're not really taking it seriously. Cause Vincent, there's so many guys, so many musicians that I knew that I know… that were on that set, that were on that scene back in the late 70's and early and mid 80's, that they're insurance salesmen now! You know what I'm saying, they're selling real estate.

So and they might have been good musicians but the thing was that they weren't focused on it, so what has happened now, I really don't know what to call this, but what I'll say is this: if you want a gig, I guess it'll have to be at a coffeehouse. Let's put it like that. Because a lot of clubs are closing down, a lot of clubs are closing down in this state. And Detroit, Ann Arbor, Ypsilanti - in the past what, six months, four clubs have closed up.

The club that I was hosting World Music Project, they closed up, you know what I'm saying, that was because of folly and foolishness. But still the bottom line is, that was a venue for musicians to play. And now we don't have those venues, so what we have here is a huge void. And so what I try to do is approach the higher learning institutions such as the University of Michigan and Eastern Michigan University in Ypsilanti Michigan, and tried to create something where the people can come out.

Because people want to dance, that's the bottom line, Vincent, you know what I'm saying. I mean, people want to be able to go out somewhere, they don't want to just go to a bar -- a bar is a place where you drink. People would like to come out to a club -- a place where they can dance. But they want to dance to live entertainment, they don't want to dance just to DJ's no more. And I have DJ's, but the thing about it is, they're not unpopular. They're very popular! But the thing about it is, that they're craving for good live entertainment.

Like back in the day, Vincent – Brainstorm. Crowd Pleasers. Shotgun. All these great… Roger and Zap, they weren't even called Roger and Zap they were called Roger and the Human Body. They were living in Lansing, Michigan, I knew them cats personally.

And Bootsy! I remember the night he came to the club, they were playing at in Ann Arbor, on his motorcycle, dressed up all in leather! A Harley, another Harley behind him, there was another one of his girlfriends, he had one on the back of his Harley, they all had leather on, they walked in the club. The next thing you know, Roger and the Human Body became Roger and Zap, and the rest is history.

Dre & the West Coast killed that. They took that and they just ran with it. And I love them for that, Dre, that's my baby, I love that boy and all them cats. But what I'm saying is right now in this area we are hurting badly. And what's needed here is a venue that features live music -- but good live music. And when I say good live music I'm talking about doing the funk, you're doing the go-go, you're doing a little of this, you're doing a little of that, you're doing the rock, you know what I'm saying? You might even have some Latin music in there.

Because a band here in town called Los Gatos. These guys are great, you heard Cal Tjader? These guys they got him down. And people love him, they love this band. And the DJ that I have working for me, El Sabor, Juan Paquil is a Latin DJ. This man, when he goes into a club he always gets 3, 4, 500 people, people want to dance, Vincent, and they have nowhere to dance. Nowhere.

Because the club owners have this kind of mentality: okay these kids just graduated high school they're 19, they might be good, they might suck, but the club owners are only concerned with selling alcohol -- that's what they're concerned with, is putting somebody on stage and those kids are hungry, and those kids are willing to go play for free just like we did back when we were young, that hasn't changed.

So when you got kids that are good, that are willing to play for free, that's your competition right there, so now it goes to another level. Now you have to think outside the box as we have talked about. It's not about the venues no more, it's about something bigger. What the thing I would like to see is a musician on a venue that knows about music, and he's not just a business man but he's a musician. A real musician. And I tell you, if someone opened a club around here like that, Vincent, it would shut everything down.

These people are starving, starving for some good reggae, some good funk, some good this, whatever, rock, it doesn't matter, they're starving. They just want to dance, they just want to have a good time. They don't just want to get drunk all night, you know what I'm saying, sit there listening to a DJ getting drunk and fall out karaoke, that's the big thing here now, karaoke.

Vince:
Yeah that's the American Idol of pretty much the business now, you've got all of these talent shows and so all of these people are clamoring, they think that's their only break into the business -- to the quick success, but they don't understand that they're going to be giving away a lot of their royalties and rights, to be able to have that shot. And even the ones that you don't even hear about on American Idol, the ones that don't even make it, they have to sign a waiver too that will stipulate that anything that they do -- I think they hold them up to like a year or 2 if they get a deal or something like that -- they still have to honor Simon Cowell, and pretty much his show, and they cannot talk about him or they'll be litigation -- it's really a racket now. So the musicians have to be so business-minded now, so that they can take back their rights.

Ron:
Well, Vincenzo, it's like you said: it's ninety nine percent business, once percent talent. And what you do with the talent is all about business. And it's always been that way, it's always been that way. It's never been a point where… ever since the first musician made the first record, and the first producer found a way to be able to make money, and he found a way to distribute the record, and they found we can make money from this, that's what it's been about.

That's why it's the music business. But the thing about it is that musicians have to understand something -- and this is the thing I have a problem with, with a lot of the young people. Because -- it's not them, what it is, as you've said to me many times, the business influences the kids in such a way where they feel as though "I have a shot", just like the NFL. You know what I'm saying? And it's only a few people that come through that cycle and are able to get to that point, like Lady Gaga, Chris Brown, or whatever.

That's all business, it has nothing to do with what they do in terms of their talent. They're good -- they're good at what they do. But the thing about it is it does not replace live entertainment in a way where you've got self-contained bands like Cameo, Slave, or Ohio players, Earth Wind and Fire, which was one of the greatest bands in the world. Tower of Power, see we're talking about cats that could sing background, they can dance a little bit, I mean… I remember reading reviews about the Commodores when they first came out, and they went on tour with the Jackson 5, and they were kicking their butts everywhere they went!

Now let me say something: anytime you can get on stage and kick the Jackson 5's butts? You doing something!

Vince[laughs]

You doing something, because them been playing since they were a year old, it seems like, so they were polished. They didn't even have to think about it, get on stage, stand there… as soon as the music starts, they knew. Now you get a band like the Commodores, a self-contained band, all these guys are playing their instruments, singing background, all that other stuff and they're dancing too? The bar pays all the different groups, man, those were skills. Those were skills. They didn't have to hire background dancers. Why? Cause they danced themselves.

Vince:
Yeah it's definitely a different world. So we're going to end on this note, and we're going to take part two and we're going to dig a little deeper into some of the people that you knew from Detroit and how that is affecting… how it's affected the music industry from the Motown days up to some of the people like Greg Phillinganes and you mentioned Ricky Lawson, and there's so many great musicians out of the Detroit area -- I really didn't realize how many musicians that are famous musicians today that have really created a lot of the sound in American Music that's out of the Detroit area.

Ron:
Even back in the day….

Vince:
Right

Ron:
I mean, Donald Byrd, John Lee Hooker, I mean I can go on and on and on in terms of Jazz, in terms of Blues, in terms of a lot of things. I mean, what can I say, Vince -- you already know. The greatest…

I mean, okay, let's put it like this: when Jimmy Hendrix came along, he set the stage for what guitar playing was going to be for the next -- till the world ends. James Jamerson Jr. set the tone for what bass playing was going to be about, till the world ends. That man was out of Detroit.

Vince:
We will come back to that, and so this will end this section -- this particular section of Unsung Hero, and we will be back with more from Mr. Ronrico Morris. Thank you Mr. Morris, I really appreciate your time and we will talk again. Okay?

Ron:
I thank you so much and I love you for that and you have a blessed day.

Vince:
All right, you too, my brother. See you people later.

Ron
Take Care. Peace!